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Slashing of Recreational Kreef Quota
- Thread starter jb2
- Start date
The
fishinMagician wrote:
Ja fishin
And no rest for the wicked but watching the footage of all those politicians asleep in parliament has caused me to wonder about the application of the book of Proverbs to South Africa.
fishinMagician wrote:
jb2 wrote:
interim relief simply went out and only took 4 per day on a kind of "honour system".
.
Didn't they know... there is no honour amongst thieves...
Ja fishin
And no rest for the wicked but watching the footage of all those politicians asleep in parliament has caused me to wonder about the application of the book of Proverbs to South Africa.
jb2 wrote:
Been a while since we conversed on the forum.:SSS
Thanks for keeping us up to speed on these matters.
DAFF et al are sitting with a huge problem of how to address the previously disadvantaged in this country and I sympathise with the plight of all fisherman, it is not an easy life.
What is surreal is the blatant disregard for the law. The Government by their inaction have condoned poaching, but fail to acknowledge the recreational sector as more or less self regulating. The Government have taken sides in giving in to illegal activities with more quotas, yet the law abiding citizens are penalised.
To accomplish this, Government has given it a name on paper, subsistence fisherman with a whole paper to back it up and when we challenge it, we are deemed to be questioning their livelihood. Nobody has ever questioned the right to make a living, we are simply saying that our recreational activity is sustainable and promotes local business and to boot is 99% self regulating. I don't know of any fisherman that has taken extra Crayfish, even when I had my own commercial ski boat I never took Crayfish, for fear of prosecution.
The Government has lost control of the situation, but has failed to acknowledge this and to make it legal they have created a monster of corrupt and illegal activities.
It is nonsense that 130 odd Kgs of Crayfish is ever going to sustain poor people, it is a joke, it is not the legal Kgs, it is the piece of paper that makes the illegal activities appear legal, that is the fact of the matter, DAFF knows it and this thing is going to come back and bite them on the bum.
This is not uplifting true fisherman, this is making poaching legal. True fisherman are the ones that wake up early, don oilskins and fish with a line. How many of these people can even break a Snoek's neck?
Makes me mad to think what could be in store for us. Government's intentions are loud and clear.
Regards,
BTTB.
Hi jb2Hi BTTB
The "interim relief" crayfishing initially did not specify a landing point. So while others had to put every kreef crate over a scale, interim relief simply went out and only took 4 per day on a kind of "honour system".
It is totally surreal.
Been a while since we conversed on the forum.:SSS
Thanks for keeping us up to speed on these matters.
DAFF et al are sitting with a huge problem of how to address the previously disadvantaged in this country and I sympathise with the plight of all fisherman, it is not an easy life.
What is surreal is the blatant disregard for the law. The Government by their inaction have condoned poaching, but fail to acknowledge the recreational sector as more or less self regulating. The Government have taken sides in giving in to illegal activities with more quotas, yet the law abiding citizens are penalised.
To accomplish this, Government has given it a name on paper, subsistence fisherman with a whole paper to back it up and when we challenge it, we are deemed to be questioning their livelihood. Nobody has ever questioned the right to make a living, we are simply saying that our recreational activity is sustainable and promotes local business and to boot is 99% self regulating. I don't know of any fisherman that has taken extra Crayfish, even when I had my own commercial ski boat I never took Crayfish, for fear of prosecution.
The Government has lost control of the situation, but has failed to acknowledge this and to make it legal they have created a monster of corrupt and illegal activities.
It is nonsense that 130 odd Kgs of Crayfish is ever going to sustain poor people, it is a joke, it is not the legal Kgs, it is the piece of paper that makes the illegal activities appear legal, that is the fact of the matter, DAFF knows it and this thing is going to come back and bite them on the bum.
This is not uplifting true fisherman, this is making poaching legal. True fisherman are the ones that wake up early, don oilskins and fish with a line. How many of these people can even break a Snoek's neck?
Makes me mad to think what could be in store for us. Government's intentions are loud and clear.
Regards,
BTTB.
BTTB wrote:
Hi BTTB
You have summed the situation perfectly.
I had suggested that the only allocation criteria for kreef should be that the fisher should present his hands for inspection. The guys who pull hoops and work with kreef seem to develop hands like old driftwood.
I remember when there was an insistence that a certain amount of the inshore kreef had to go to women.
There were some women who were successful who had never been to sea. But it was a requirement that the rights holder had to be on board the vessel and DAFF (then MCM) would check.
Apparently one poor women lay on the bottom of the boat and cried while they pulled the nets.
jb2 wrote:Hi jb2Hi BTTB
The "interim relief" crayfishing initially did not specify a landing point. So while others had to put every kreef crate over a scale, interim relief simply went out and only took 4 per day on a kind of "honour system".
It is totally surreal.
Been a while since we conversed on the forum.:SSS
Thanks for keeping us up to speed on these matters.
DAFF et al are sitting with a huge problem of how to address the previously disadvantaged in this country and I sympathise with the plight of all fisherman, it is not an easy life.
What is surreal is the blatant disregard for the law. The Government by their inaction have condoned poaching, but fail to acknowledge the recreational sector as more or less self regulating. The Government have taken sides in giving in to illegal activities with more quotas, yet the law abiding citizens are penalised.
To accomplish this, Government has given it a name on paper, subsistence fisherman with a whole paper to back it up and when we challenge it, we are deemed to be questioning their livelihood. Nobody has ever questioned the right to make a living, we are simply saying that our recreational activity is sustainable and promotes local business and to boot is 99% self regulating. I don't know of any fisherman that has taken extra Crayfish, even when I had my own commercial ski boat I never took Crayfish, for fear of prosecution.
The Government has lost control of the situation, but has failed to acknowledge this and to make it legal they have created a monster of corrupt and illegal activities.
It is nonsense that 130 odd Kgs of Crayfish is ever going to sustain poor people, it is a joke, it is not the legal Kgs, it is the piece of paper that makes the illegal activities appear legal, that is the fact of the matter, DAFF knows it and this thing is going to come back and bite them on the bum.
This is not uplifting true fisherman, this is making poaching legal. True fisherman are the ones that wake up early, don oilskins and fish with a line. How many of these people can even break a Snoek's neck?
Makes me mad to think what could be in store for us. Government's intentions are loud and clear.
Regards,
BTTB.
Hi BTTB
You have summed the situation perfectly.
I had suggested that the only allocation criteria for kreef should be that the fisher should present his hands for inspection. The guys who pull hoops and work with kreef seem to develop hands like old driftwood.
I remember when there was an insistence that a certain amount of the inshore kreef had to go to women.
There were some women who were successful who had never been to sea. But it was a requirement that the rights holder had to be on board the vessel and DAFF (then MCM) would check.
Apparently one poor women lay on the bottom of the boat and cried while they pulled the nets.
I still say a Crayfish is the cockroach of the Ocean and will always be around no matter the pressure put on it, you will get the a few poorer seasons just like any cycle, but for the most part the Crayfish will move as it sees fit.
People's mindsets are going to change, the old days that Crayfish was "overprotected" in favour of only the select few quota holders are more or less over, the time is ripe to go down to the harbour where you would normally buy your fish and while picking up a Snoek, Yellowtail or Hottentot, you will also be picking up a Crayfish if that is what blows your hair back and at a price that should be more affordable.
The old fear of being caught by the officials for stealing/poaching will be superseded by many small legal quota holders selling their catch just like any other fisherman.
If this is what pans out in the end then I personally don't think it is a bad thing, it may take a year or two for it to work its way into peoples heads, but I don’t see why not, why can't we go down to the waters edge and buy a Crayfish from a subsistence fisherman. The extra's or illegal Crayfish is another matter DAFF will have to sort out if they can.
However this still does not make it right in regards to the recreational fishing industry, that industry supports thousands of jobs all over the country who pay taxes and also have families to support.
DAFF be warned, there are thousands of us watching and anticipating your next move, so be warned, we will not take this lying down, your draft policies are no more than paperwork side lining the bulk of the population for yesterdays poachers, because DAFF themselves cannot police them and I wonder what a judge would have to say about the whole story.
People's mindsets are going to change, the old days that Crayfish was "overprotected" in favour of only the select few quota holders are more or less over, the time is ripe to go down to the harbour where you would normally buy your fish and while picking up a Snoek, Yellowtail or Hottentot, you will also be picking up a Crayfish if that is what blows your hair back and at a price that should be more affordable.
The old fear of being caught by the officials for stealing/poaching will be superseded by many small legal quota holders selling their catch just like any other fisherman.
If this is what pans out in the end then I personally don't think it is a bad thing, it may take a year or two for it to work its way into peoples heads, but I don’t see why not, why can't we go down to the waters edge and buy a Crayfish from a subsistence fisherman. The extra's or illegal Crayfish is another matter DAFF will have to sort out if they can.
However this still does not make it right in regards to the recreational fishing industry, that industry supports thousands of jobs all over the country who pay taxes and also have families to support.
DAFF be warned, there are thousands of us watching and anticipating your next move, so be warned, we will not take this lying down, your draft policies are no more than paperwork side lining the bulk of the population for yesterdays poachers, because DAFF themselves cannot police them and I wonder what a judge would have to say about the whole story.
what about a till at the slip, we pay for what we take, to quota, but are allowed to sell.
EG ; 15 a kreef / 20 a yellowtail or snoek / 30 per kg tuna etc, take what you want (within quota) and pay at the slip, Gov make money, money to police & pay for conservation etc, Fisher makes money selling catch. Happening anyway, this way at least can be controlled and generates revenue. will also limit the waste, people taking more than they can consume etc as it's a "free" resource.
EG ; 15 a kreef / 20 a yellowtail or snoek / 30 per kg tuna etc, take what you want (within quota) and pay at the slip, Gov make money, money to police & pay for conservation etc, Fisher makes money selling catch. Happening anyway, this way at least can be controlled and generates revenue. will also limit the waste, people taking more than they can consume etc as it's a "free" resource.
My family and I spent a few days at Paternoster in the 1st week in November 2013. My dad and I walked down to the "vis mark" one late afternoon and by chance saw the "bakkies" coming off the sea. There were some 4x4's pulling these "bakkies" out, and after storing these boats, came to the car park at the "vis mark". People gathered around, and we thought it was fish coming out.
When we got closer, we saw it was crayfish being sold. Most of these appeared to be undersized, going for R50 per cray. I am no expert, but it was closed season (as far as I know) and these guys were openly selling crayfish around town. A popular place was in front of the little hotel. I digress... At the "vis mark" I was interviewed by a journalist from Radio RSG, asking me a few questions. They were doing a story about sustainable crayfish fishing, and the impact on local communities. I did not have much to say as I am no expert, as stated before. Incidentally, one of the owners of a "bakkie" drove a HIGH PRICED 4x4 bakkie, and had about 4 guys working for him, and HE was selling crayfish in the car park area. He did not look like a "subsistence fisherman"....
However, I do have an opinion, which may or may not be popular, depending on which side of the fence you sit on.
These local guys (and I am speaking particularly of Paternoster, but this may also be true for many other coastal communities) ONLY have crayfish and mussels to make a living off. They are selling, probably illegally, bags full of crayfish and black mussels 24/7 x 365. There are no other employment available in these areas. So what must they do? One can not live of one's "daily quota" alone. People need to sell what they have (cray and mussel) to make some sort of living for their families...
Is it sustainable? I don't know! Is it legal? Probably not. Do they have a choice? Definitely NOT!
A hungry tummy makes one do what one have to do to survive....
When we got closer, we saw it was crayfish being sold. Most of these appeared to be undersized, going for R50 per cray. I am no expert, but it was closed season (as far as I know) and these guys were openly selling crayfish around town. A popular place was in front of the little hotel. I digress... At the "vis mark" I was interviewed by a journalist from Radio RSG, asking me a few questions. They were doing a story about sustainable crayfish fishing, and the impact on local communities. I did not have much to say as I am no expert, as stated before. Incidentally, one of the owners of a "bakkie" drove a HIGH PRICED 4x4 bakkie, and had about 4 guys working for him, and HE was selling crayfish in the car park area. He did not look like a "subsistence fisherman"....
However, I do have an opinion, which may or may not be popular, depending on which side of the fence you sit on.
These local guys (and I am speaking particularly of Paternoster, but this may also be true for many other coastal communities) ONLY have crayfish and mussels to make a living off. They are selling, probably illegally, bags full of crayfish and black mussels 24/7 x 365. There are no other employment available in these areas. So what must they do? One can not live of one's "daily quota" alone. People need to sell what they have (cray and mussel) to make some sort of living for their families...
Is it sustainable? I don't know! Is it legal? Probably not. Do they have a choice? Definitely NOT!
A hungry tummy makes one do what one have to do to survive....
Good morning guys.
To my understanding, if they want to cut a season like this they need to issue a government gazette stating the changes. This is then opened up for public comment for a 60 day period. After which it can take up 2/3 months to finalize the government gazette stating the changes. One of our senior club members had a chat to some of the local rangers and they confirmed that the new quota CANNOT be policed until the final government gazette is published.
please feel free to add comments about this. I'm very eager to hear about the opinions that comes out.
To my understanding, if they want to cut a season like this they need to issue a government gazette stating the changes. This is then opened up for public comment for a 60 day period. After which it can take up 2/3 months to finalize the government gazette stating the changes. One of our senior club members had a chat to some of the local rangers and they confirmed that the new quota CANNOT be policed until the final government gazette is published.
please feel free to add comments about this. I'm very eager to hear about the opinions that comes out.
Well the only thing we have at the moment is the official statement from DAFF: http://scenicsouth.co.za/2013/11/west-coast-rock-lobstercrayfish-season-2013-2014/
I spoke with an official at MelkbosStrand last weekend and I asked me until gazette comes what rules apply: last years ones or the ones in the media statement and he said he was told to follow the ones in the media statement...
I spoke with an official at MelkbosStrand last weekend and I asked me until gazette comes what rules apply: last years ones or the ones in the media statement and he said he was told to follow the ones in the media statement...
Hi guys
After further investigation, i have found the government gazette regarding the 2013/2014 crayfish quotas. it can now be officially policed. The government gazette was published on the 15th of November 2013. Government gazette number 37036.
Apologies for not having my facts straight earlier..
After further investigation, i have found the government gazette regarding the 2013/2014 crayfish quotas. it can now be officially policed. The government gazette was published on the 15th of November 2013. Government gazette number 37036.
Apologies for not having my facts straight earlier..
ThefishinMagician
Sealiner
potevan wrote:
Whilst I understand the plight of the unemployed, I don't fully agree.
Its too easy to say "I poach, 'cos I cant get work". What they should be saying is , " I poach because getting an honest regular job (and keeping it) is hard work."
Its called work for a reason. It takes dedication and effort and is long term.
We have a house on the west coast and make use of a guy from the town to come work around the house when we are there. This guy is dedicated and hard working.
He comes from the same community as a lot of the poachers are from but he even says they are a bunch of lazy drunkards with nothing better to do than lie around. Says they only go out when they feel lus or the money from the last haul has been drank or smoked up. He admits that "its an easy way to earn money"
I cannot believe that in all these communities, nobody can come up with a service or a business idea that can be marketed else where... Why have none of them gone and learnt a trade or skill that they can take else where for employment. Or bring it back home and start something there. Why do they always look for answers to their problems from elsewhere.
Its too easy to say ... There is no work. I hire enough people into "no skills required" positions. The ones that make are not the ones that have money or better education, but rather those with the right attitude.
If want to be the Jannie Jammerkry, you will always find an excuse why you cannot be more than that.
M
These local guys (and I am speaking particularly of Paternoster, but this may also be true for many other coastal communities) ONLY have crayfish and mussels to make a living off. They are selling, probably illegally, bags full of crayfish and black mussels 24/7 x 365. There are no other employment available in these areas. So what must they do? One can not live of one's "daily quota" alone. People need to sell what they have (cray and mussel) to make some sort of living for their families...
Is it sustainable? I don't know! Is it legal? Probably not. Do they have a choice? Definitely NOT!
A hungry tummy makes one do what one have to do to survive....
Whilst I understand the plight of the unemployed, I don't fully agree.
Its too easy to say "I poach, 'cos I cant get work". What they should be saying is , " I poach because getting an honest regular job (and keeping it) is hard work."
Its called work for a reason. It takes dedication and effort and is long term.
We have a house on the west coast and make use of a guy from the town to come work around the house when we are there. This guy is dedicated and hard working.
He comes from the same community as a lot of the poachers are from but he even says they are a bunch of lazy drunkards with nothing better to do than lie around. Says they only go out when they feel lus or the money from the last haul has been drank or smoked up. He admits that "its an easy way to earn money"
I cannot believe that in all these communities, nobody can come up with a service or a business idea that can be marketed else where... Why have none of them gone and learnt a trade or skill that they can take else where for employment. Or bring it back home and start something there. Why do they always look for answers to their problems from elsewhere.
Its too easy to say ... There is no work. I hire enough people into "no skills required" positions. The ones that make are not the ones that have money or better education, but rather those with the right attitude.
If want to be the Jannie Jammerkry, you will always find an excuse why you cannot be more than that.
TRAVY B wrote:
season cut to 21 days......
exact dates/days still to be confirmed
Saw something on the Cape Times poster boards about the upcoming crayfish season. Did anyone read it?
season cut to 21 days......
exact dates/days still to be confirmed